btw you don't have to answer that, it was just an idea. :)

Ariel could walk pretty well....I also like her shocked face

Ariel has a bad wardrobe

She is also sort of smelly, but then again like tbh she lived in fish poop water for 16 years

Where are her gills

Why do her seashells look scary, I was traumatized by them in my childhood

Her hair is red...but red is okay, but red=cherry. I don't like cherry flavored stuff JK I like cherry jollyranchers

That is all that has to be said about Ariel. Fin.

NEXT CHAPTER OF OUR LIVES: opinion on Mulan's wardrobe

I think people often forget just HOW MANY outfits Mulan has. You often hear people here and elsewhere talking about Jasmine's extensive changing-once-a-minute wardrobe, but Mulan has that too at times, and people seem to forget that.

Mulan's wardrobe is also a rare foray into the realm of clothes that aren't normal, modern USA clothes (Tiana) or princess dresses. Jasmine and Pocahontas also had this aspect, but Jasmine's clothes were a lot less accurate to what people would have actually worn back then and over there. Mulan's clothes, male and female incarnations both, are basically accurate to Ancient China.

Mulan's wardrobe is also pretty underrated, although this is just subjective. The only outfits people seem to like are the green one, the matchmaker one and the blue one worn at the end. The pajamas, bits and pieces of outfits and especially the army outfits are either forgotten or disliked by the general fanpop community and elsewhere. I don't share the popular opinion on this, in fact I like the bits and pieces as well as the rest of her wardrobe. but it is quite underrated by most.

I HATE it when people like the DP's for lame reasons:

* Ariel - She has red hair and is a mermaid!
* Belle - She reads and is an outcast!
* Mulan - She kicks ass!
* Jasmine - She walks around in pants!
* Aurora - She is so beautiful!

I would like somebody to debate with over whether or not Belle is a snob. I have VERY strong feelings about this... ;)

I would debate but right now I have to work. I will debate though, this is really cool! It's like my high school debate all over again!

I'm prepared Silverrose1991 and shanyuboss :) Plus, I promise there will be no heated exchanges. This is purely about Belle.

Give me a minute to prepare my case...

She's not a snob at all. Belle doesn't talk to the villagers because they're HORRIBLE to her. They all call her "odd" and "funny", some (bimbettes and Gaston) only care about her beauty and not her personality, and others ignore her completely. Over the years, she was isolated by the villagers and THAT'S why she doesn't talk to them. She's lonely not a snob. Calling her a snob is completely unfair.

I believe she calls them little people because they never do the right thing and treat her fairly.

RE: Is Belle a snob

To put it shortly, no. She has reasonable standards, and to be honest I don't much blame her for how she treats the townspeople in light of how they treat her. They call her names right in front of her, only withstand her because she was pretty, and some, like Gaston, are an inch away from sexually harassing her at times. I wouldn't give people like this the time of day, but Belle does. She attempts to make polite conversation with them, and is even cordial to brutish Gaston. I don't think she's a snob at all, although she can be kind of stubborn.

First let me say that I like that Belle is a snob. I like all of her flaws.

Why Belle would be a snob? She calls the villagers "little people" and only talk about her own interests. When the baker tried to make small talk with her she just talked and talked about the book she had finished. She complains about not fitting in, but truly, she never really tried to. She expects people to fit her own expectations of them.

I'm not saying this is completely a bad thing: she doesn't change herself because of society's prejudices, and that is good. However, I still think she looks down in the villagers, because they don't share her interests.

Okay, now I am going to debate.

About the whole Belle being a snob thing, Belle is kind of a snob. It is not exactly a bad thing but. According to dictionary.com, this is the definition of snob:


1.
a person who imitates, cultivates, or slavishly admires social superiors and is condescending or overbearing to others.
2.
a person who believes himself or herself an expert or connoisseur in a given field and is condescending toward or disdainful of those who hold other opinions or have different tastes regarding this field: a musical snob.

Belle I would say does savishly admire social supiriors and she looks upon the people of the town in a condescending manner like they are inferior to her. And it is not like she tried to fit in. She looks down at them in a way like she is not even gonna bother trying and that she knows she is better. For example, when she said:

Little town, it's a quite village
Everyday, like the one before
Little town, full of little people

She is reffering to them as little people and they are, but she is kind of walking around and reading her book in a kind of snobby way imo.

Although she isn't that snobby compared to jasmine. But you could look at her as a snob. Deny it all you want, but it is kind of true.

Alright, are we done with this topic. I want to move on with my favorite topic to debate but I just want to make sure that everyone is fine with me moving on.

Who is up for a debate about why Maleficent is not a good villian?

About Maleficent. She's not my favorite villain, in fact she's my third favorite DP villain. I will admit Maleficent isn't the deepest character, but really not too many Disney villains are (excluding Gothel and Frollo), but her entire persona like Aurora, leaves an impression. She just has an air about her that oozes evilness and class simultaneously. I love how she's so evil that even the smallest things set her off (not getting invited to a party). That shows she's evil to the bone. Anyway that's kinda my point, merp.

Can we chit chat about how Pocahontas has a personality?

Pocahontas has a personality! People say she gets more boring as the movie progresses. I think she just becomes more mature. Everyone has to grow up at some point (except Peter Pan and all of them.) She was just at a hard, difficult point in her life where she needed to be more mature in the situation. We are talking about a possible war here! She loved both sides, and did not want war to happen, and obviously, a war would not be a fixed by a bubbly, fun personality at the moment. She had to grow up to get things done.

You can see her playful personality through much of the movie. Not only in the beginning where she jumps off of the cliff, but when she sings "Just Around the Riverbend.". Another playful moment we see of her is when she first meets John Smith. She is curious about the new things she sees, just as much as Ariel is curious.

Just because she doesn't have a large personality like Jasmine or a kind nature like Snow White doesn't mean she doesn't have a personality.

Pocahontas has a personality, obviously. She's mature, yet playful too. She's adventurous, daring, dutiful, yet indecisive and impulsive...sounds like a personality to me! People say she looses her personality when she meets John Smith..ha..ha..NO. What people don't understand is there's a WAR going on. The girl got stress! Just because she ain't jumping off cliffs doesn't mean she lost her personality. She's awesome :3 Idk if she's 3rd or 4th on my list, but I LOVE her!

About Maleficent

I think Maleficent is a great villain. Sure, she's cliché and her motives are a bit ridiculous (not being invited to a Christening? Girl, you're above that!), but she has style! Her clothes, her speech, her laugh, the green magic, shape-shifiting... Not to mention she is really powerful, seeing how she posessed Aurora. She's someone to be feared.

I'll admit she's not the brightest tool in the box - she needs to oversee her minions' work better and is too arrogant for her own good. Also, she's not the most deep villain (that title goes to either Tremaine or Gothel, I think), but I actually like this way better. I've noticed that the less we know about a villain is better, because they'll seem more inhuman, more menacing, more evil.

So, yes, that is my short opinion in Maleficent.

Why Snow White and Aurora Have A Personality (My Top 2 Favorites)

Snow White- Snow White's kind, cheerful, and optimistic, but there's so much more to her. She's confident, yet insecure. She's insecure in the fact she wants everyone to love her (praying for Grumpy to like her). Also, she runs away because she doesn't want Prince to see her "ugly" clothes. She's confident in the fact that she's not afraid to go into someone else's home and boss them around, though she has good intentions of course. She's a bit naive, but the wishing well worked and she just wanted to be kind to the old lady. She's quite sassy too, especially with Grumpy.

Aurora- HAIL TO THE PRINCESS AURORA *erm, sorry* She, like Pocahontas, is mature yet playful. She's very dutiful as well, like Pocahontas. She's quite sarcastic too, in the fact that she pretends to the animals that she's met someone. She's a bit pessimistic, let's her emotions control her, and is indecisive, but that makes her more relatable. She's shy around strangers, but more confident around people she knows. She's also quite passive, scared to tell her aunts how she really feels, which I really relate to. She wants more freedom, but is scared to ask for it.

So yeahhhhhh.. :)

What I consider a good villian is not all about cool posing or evil laughs. It's not all about how evil they seem by the way that they act or how many people they get to fear of them. To me, it's all about the ruthlessness, the realims, tactics, and the way they set a theme into a villian. Maleficent's concept was an interesting concept. Maleficent is a symbol of all evil. Maleficent has no care of any being, basically a satanic type villain.

The way that they portrayed this into the storyline though did not quite exactly make sense though. Maleficent arrives at a party and decides to strike fear into people because "she was not wanted". To get revenge and prove to them to do what she orders, she casts a spell on Aurora and that on her sixteenth birthday she will prick her finger into a spindle and die.

During this scene, how she was acting during her appearance seems quite artificial and makes her appear as a cliche type villain. Their wasn't a single thing about her that made her unique. Yes, she was quite interesting, but not very much on the unique side. More of one of those villains that you would think of when you think of a cliche story.

She appears during that scene and the first thing that comes out of her mouth is..... An evil laugh, of course! Not only that, but she starts giving her evil laugh way too many times during the scene to be realistic in any way, shape, or form.

The next thing is, if disney wanted to make an interesting rounded villain, they could have made her shades of grey rather then all a dark character. The other option would be to portray this symbol in a better way, but they didn't. They kept her cliche. It's not like Shan Yu, he was an action based character and his role in the movie was made up by his actions rather then his dialogue.

Now Maleficent is not horrendous at playing her role as a villain. She is bad (I will get to that later), but not as bad as some other villians. The main thing that get's me about Maleficent is the way she was done.

PART ONE, TO BE CONTINUED

Next thing, she has bad motives. Why would the devil want to come to a christening? This makes absolutely no sense! Why would the devil want to do that, why? People say this shows more realism in the fact that she is a quite evil symbol, but she wasn't given a backstory or anything to give us more.

I get it, she was evil and all, but quite artificially evil. A very flat and boring symbol who is made up of very basic and small amount of traits. Not developed at all and not very rounded either. She doesn't have much thought put into her. How easy is it to think of a dark and evil character? She needs to have some kind of perspective or something shown of her in the movie. She is made up of basic traits and is nothing much.

And really, the only reason why people really like her is because of her whole theme. Like just as it was mentioned above, people are so focused on her evilness and her whole theme of green and devil colors they don't pay attention to anything regarding her depth.

PART TWO, TO BE CONTINUED

PLEASE SEE PART ONE ON PAGE 1

A feminist review of Sleeping Beauty: link

AudreyFreak's reply to it: link

Maleficent is of course super powerful but take a second to think, imagine if Maleficent didn't have her powers. Would her character be the same? No. It would not. Which is of course reasonable, but my main point is, people think Maleficent has a real character but she doesn't. Her powers take up her character and it distracts everyone from her herself. Her power is the thing that is moving her throughout the movie and without it she is nothing. She never had a chance for us to see her make a big decision like we did for Shan Yu, we never got to see if she was brave or anything because we can't thanks to her power. Her power is the thing that is making her seem like this great character but really she isn't. Without her power she is nothing. Shan Yu on the other hand is smart, brave, calm, adaptable, ruthless and we got to see that alot rather then having his strength take over the film.

Found what I was trying to: link

An explanation of Maleficent's reasons.

Next debate: did Arisl really feel remorse for her actions.

(By the way, if any of you are going to join this one, the whole Ariel is just a teen is not a very good argument and doesn't prove a thing)

I'll post my reasonings to my opinion tommorow. Just getting people to look at this poll btw.

Reasons why I don't think Ariel was sorry
Okay. I'm not sure if I am going to word this right but here I go:

Ariel had her heart set on being a human for a long time, the Eric thing was just a bit of a bonus for her. When she got angry, she became reckless and did stupid things. We all do. Once the whole battle with Ursula was over, she was all happy-go-lucky. We obviously never see her say sorry to anyone for causing all the trouble and letting humans know there are mermaids. She didn't really see a need to say sorry though. She got everything she wanted: the guy, the humanness. She could've actually been sorry, but we never actually see it. And the argument that she says, "I love you, Daddy," is not an apology. She is thanking him for turning her into a human.

I don't think Ariel was sorry for any of it. She just didn't want to be blamed. When she says 'Daddy, I'm sorry, I didn't know!' it seems pretty insincere of an apology, like a hurried attempt to make her father think it wasn't her fault. And she really doesn't take any blame, she's desperate not to. She says to Ursula immediately after: 'You monster!' It is because of Ariel this all happened, Ariel is the one who signed the scroll, but she makes it Ursula's fault because she sees herself as blameless. It was her fault Ursula nearly became queen instead of Triton, but she didn't apologize for that either. Once Eric shish-ka-bobbed Ursula, she was just happy she got everything she wanted. She didn't seem to see at all that this happened because of her, that it was her fault. It's actually one of the reasons why Merida is a way better role model, at least in my opinion.

To be fair to Ariel, she thought that she only risked her own well-being. She had no idea that Ursula wanted her as leverage against her father. She is thoughtless, but nothing she does is mean spirited. And it is not just her fault that Ursula nearly became Queen. Triton was the one who put the well-being of his daughter over the well-being of everyone who lives in his kingdom.
Also, it is not like Ariel just swims away, happy that she got away with her actions. The first thing she does is attacking Ursula, risking her life. Not the smartest move, though.
And after everything was said and done, she looked pretty accepting of the fact that she couldn't be with Eric. She was still longing for him, but I didn't see her arguing with her father about it either, or laying on the beach to talk to Eric. Triton changed his mind and let her go on his own.

Basically, Ariel DID feel remorse and it was pretty obvious. Weather she said sorry the right way or made it sincere enough has nothing to do with it. She did feel sincere. She made a wreckless mistake without realizing while because she was too busy swooning over Eric and her head was up in the clouds so she made that stupid mistake. When Ursala revealed herself on the third night, she was in shock and at that moment everything was coming back to her about how she made such a stupid mistake. You could tell by the look on her face that she was thinking "What have I done?". She looked like she felt like the worse person she has ever felt in her lifetime. That's at least what her expression said to me. Anyway, when her dad got turned into one of the plants, she didn't just say oh no about how the plan got ruined, she was staring at her dad in shock and just staring at these things that kept telling her how bad the deal was. She swam straight for Ursala and told her she is a monster and tried to attack. Not that she is a monster because Ariel didn't want to admit her mistake, but because she actually was evil enough to do this. Oh yeah, Ariel also said sorry to her dad when he got turned into a plant. It may have been a very quick one but she didn't have time to do a long one so she just kept telling him "Daddy I'm sorry!". After the full battle that she rushed to right away after her sorry, Ursala was killed and everything was cleared up. The next place we saw Ariel was on the rock staring at Eric sadly. You woukd assume Ariel probably didn't say sorry to him again after because the first sorry was so quick and a good sincere sorry would be longer. Well, right after Ursala got defeated, I am sure their was a few minutes of that part that we didn't see where Ariel possibly said sorry. Of course, not much of a valid argument though. Anyway, I do agree that the sorry was not sincere. A good sorry would have been that she apologized again, which she didn't but she felt remorse and we know that. Regardless of the sorry, she felt sorry. And like I said, you never know if she said sorry again. When she was staring at Eric, she was doing so because she wanted to get Triton to give Eric another chance after he defeated Ursala. I'm sure after that she didn't want more trouble or even risk it.

Well, seems like nobody wants to keep debating about this topic. Should I change continue to the next topic? I feel like nobody wants to debate except me.

Next debate, is John smith ignorant. I will post my argument later.

In my opinion, he is as ignorant and terrible as it gets. He is way too cocky for his own good, and IMO, he has nothing to be cocky about. He thinks he's the top duck, but tbh what is he? "Oh I explored HUNDREDS of new lands, what could possibly be different about this one?" Nice. Pat on the back, but Dora beats you by a bit.

They try to make him oh so likeable, by giving him so many "perfect" traits. The whole "magical" transformation, which I don't feel exists. The whole "I saved two people how cool am I" ego, which just doesn't work. When Thomas killed Kocuom, and Pocahontas (don't know why though, she didn't give two sh*ts about him and insulted him behind his back) upset about Kocuom, he lazily (yet tried to OH SO DRAMATICALLY) yell "GET OUT OF HERE THOMAS". Sorry, but I felt that was entirely unrealistic, and the way he tried to comfort the Pocahontas who I felt didn't feel any remorse (like she got over the death in two seconds? Wth?), he honestly just didn't seem....three dimentional.

Disney tried to hard to make him the perfectly flawed, likeable, witty, sarcastic, pretty-boy hero but it just doesn't work out. To me, he comes across as a not so "magically" transformed character, crudely developed, terrible shown, stuff-down-your-throat likeness that does not work at all. Just no, I cringe each time he talks, it makes me want to just punch something.

This came off as a rant and doesn't make sense at all, but I'll formally write why I hate him later on

He is ignorant, but by the end he has a realization of what it is to be more with nature. That nature is just not a game anymore. He is cocky that is true everything you explained prussiaducky is a good analysis of him, but ignorance towards Native Americans changes by the end of the movie. His mistake to stay after Kocuom died was ignorant, but "People do crazy (stupid) things... when they're in love.

Sadly, it just disappears and all of these good traits he gained or understood just... poof! by the second movie, but I don't know if we are going that far with the debate here.

No offense but you guys are all kind of giving bad arguments.

The problem with John Smith is that he is "too perfect". Disney tried to sell him as a basically good guy who just happens to be stuck in his European perspective - which in a way, he is. But then Pocahontas only has to sing one song and he is suddenly all understanding. This might work if he were young, but he is Captain John Smith who visited a lot of other native worlds beforehand without learning anything. So I guess he was meant to be the ignorant who develops a better understanding, but since this process happens in one song, he basically switches from "I know everything better" to "We have to respect the natives" in two to three minutes.
So he is ignorant until Colours of the Wind and after that he is the perfect hero who never does anything wrong.

What Swan Pride said ^^^. His flaws were existent for like 5 minutes in the movie, then they made him the perfect hero. And by doing so it made him less interesting and bland. Mel Gibson didn't help since he gave John Smith's voice the vibrancy of stale bread.

That's what bother me with Colors of the Wind and Pocahontas: she can cure racism with extravagant musical numbers (and speeches, but I'll let that pass).

Well, I am in agreement with John Smith.

So the next debate is about....... FROZEN.
I think it is overrated. People are acting like it so the best thing ever, and it amazes me that people are complaining about the issues in PATF, when Frozen has the same flaws, but the issues are even bigger. The development is rushed, the plot has so many holes and unexplained things; and the story and characters are the most important thing. I am not saying it is bad, but it amazes me how many peoe ignore certain things, but comain about another film that has the SAME flaws.

Tbh with me, I could care less about "classics" like TLM, BatB and Aladdin. Some of my favorite DP movies are Sleeping Beauty, Pocahontas, PatF, SWatSD, and Brave. All of these movies are flawed, I'll admit that, but tbh I just have a fun time watching them and enjoy all the characters. I should be more analytic, but when I watch a movie I just wanna like the characters and enjoy watching it, and that applies to Frozen. I love the characters, the plot twists, the music, the animation. Yes there are "plot holes" but tbh they don't really bother me because imho the movie doesn't need to explain every single thing.

It's overrated. The plotholes annoy me. The music is good, but it doesn't feel Disney to me. The characters are mixed: some are very good and others are ok.

It's good, but nothing more, I think everyone here can agree that it isn't a GREAT movie, They just enjoy watching it.

The problem with Frozen for me, is that I can watch every single Disney Princess movie over and over again (Snow White to a less extent though and Brave but that's pixar so its slightly different) but with Frozen it's not the same. I love Frozen a lot, but it's just not a movie that's fun for me to rewatch because every time I do so, I'm either bored or notice more of its flaws and it lacks that Disney-esque feel

Argue with this - Frozen won big this year. I don't think it's overrated at all