oh boy

Of course not they are all strong young women
who deep down knew that they had to fight to get out of the situation
They were in. To me they are just as strong as Mulan and Medreia.

i wonder how many people are voting 'no' just because of the stigma of being a damsel in distress.
tbh i think they're all damsels. but i also believe that being a damsel isn't necessarily a bad thing.

If we're going by the plots of the movies, they were (although I do think there's an argument against Cinderella being one). Doesn't mean they aren't strong. Damsel in distress is more of a circumstance than a type of character.

Why? Why do we need to go around labeling characters "damsels in distress?" It achieves nothing.

All it does is just cause fights and more bickering.

I think Aurora would be the only one to qualify. Snow White does something about her situation, and Cinderella wasn't waiting on a prince. That just kind of happened.

Depends actually. Snow and Cinderella are shown some damsel in distress in some way, though they aren't fully damsels. But Aurora, I can say she's fully damsel in distress.

not every analysis of a character has to "achieve" something.
debate is a good thing anyway.

@Unholynoise: I fail to see why calling characters damsels in distress is an "analysis" that's beneficial. In what way? It's usually negative in connotation, whether you decide to see that or not.

And that's why I don't stand by the whole "debate" thing about it...since Disney fandom "slander over damsels in distress" for Cinderella, Aurora, and Snow White--- just manifested in Disney creating a cliche character out of Merida, who really qualifies for the damsel in distress trait, since her three brothers and her mother end up saving her butt during most of Brave. Elinor fights Mor'du to save Merida. I literally watched that happen.

Rapunzel needs Eugene to cut off her hair and break Mother Gothel's "hold" on her. Damsel in distress? Yes.
Tiana ends up needing Naveen's love to stop being a frog, and become a human again. Is Tiana a damsel in distress? Definitely. Elsa needs Anna to save her sorry butt from Hans's oncoming knife. Is Elsa a damsel in distress? Absolutely. Anna needs her sister's love in order to feel whole, and spends ALL of Frozen jumping from one man to another trying to obtain that. Does Anna qualify for a damsel in distress? YUP. Moana spends most of her movie "confused" about "what to do" and "how fast to do it." Moana's grandmother is the one who actually gives Moana her drive to become a heroine. Moana, by herself, really lacks get-up-and-go. And what about all of the times during the movie that Moana spends stranded or crying all by herself in the ocean? Damsel in distress? Once again, yes.

The Modern Disney princesses are no better about their "heroics" than their forebears, the Classical and Renaissance princesses. This whole obsessive focus on "we don't need no man" and "damsel in distress" slander just makes no sense. IT NEVER DID.

I said, debates about "damsels in distress" ultimately achieve NOTHING. The whole Disney Princess lineup is still chocked full of the same problems. It never outgrew them.

^I think the connotation of damsel in distress isn't always negative, it depends with how do you see them, with your own perspective. All Disney Princesses, whether they're classic, renaissance, and revival, are shown as damsels in some way. And what's the correlation between the classic princesses are damsels or not with the revival one? We don't talk about them here anymore. And your way to show your hatred with peoples with the specific princesses are kind of irritating.

^Hatred? Sparklefairy, hatred is not what I said here. I said "damsels in distress" needs to be DROPPED from the vocabulary. And that correlation you just asked about? Yes, I just showed you ( and everyone else) how the revival era stacked up against the classical and renaissance eras.

Hatred is not what I am getting at here. But you just failed to see that.

^If not, why you just compared the classic princesses that you think they aren't damsel in distress with modern one like Tiana, Merida, and Elsa, that you think ared amsels?? Why don't you compare it with renaissance princess instead, for example? This isn't the only time you did this. You compare them, in most of the topic here.

^If I say that the Classical princesses aren't damsels, I thereby negate the premise that the revival princesses are "a cut above every other princess" for not being damsels.

I use the revival era for comparison, because that era ( out of all three eras) is most excessively focused on the "we are not damsels" advertisements in the media.

You don't "get" what I am saying. I'm saying NO to this WHOLE ENTIRE POLL. Drop the damsels in distress argument for the Classical princesses-- because it just shows up, as a reoccurring theme, throughout the whole of Disney's princess lineup.

wavesurf: why do we need to call anyone damsels anyway

also wavesurf: goes on for several paragraphs about why the revival DPs are all damsels when this poll isn't even about them

sounds like your actual beef isn't so much with using the label but with who the label is applied to. :)

Unholynoise: You just restated the point I made in my original post

Unholynoise: My statements were just as relevant as your points. Applying damsel in distress to the revival DPs isn't done nearly as often as it is to the Classical girls.

Unholynoise: Sounds like your actual beef about this is that this label "only needs to apply to the classical girls," and is not applicable to any other characters, especially not the revival girls.

And that's where I differ from you in how I see things.

I personally think this is good to look at:

link

I don't think Snow White or Aurora are really damsels in distress since they never really seem to exhibit distress in the instances where their princes save them. They're unconscious... And when they're conscious, they're not trying to get their prince to save them or wishing they would. They're either wishing they could spend more time with their princes or making friends. Snow White does collapse crying in the middle of the forest, but she did not require rescuing at that point. She was merely frightened and disoriented.

Cinderella exhibits distress when her dress is destroyed, and her Fairy Godmother gives her a gown, slippers, and coach - but Cinderella did not really require the help. Getting a gown, slippers, and coach did not directly get her away from her abusive family. She requires Jaq and Gus's help to get her out of her locked room, in which she was very distressed, as I recall. Does a damsel in distress get rescued by her friends as opposed to a knight/ prince/ noble person, though? Dunno. And she gets to leave her abusive family - but she's rescued by a statement that the Prince will marry the girl whose foot fits in the shoe. The Prince doesn't personally come and whisk her away.

Is a damsel in distress part of one's character, or only a description of what somebody is feeling at a certain point in time?

Also, according to Merriam-Webster, a damsel is technically either a young woman or (archaically) a young, unmarried woman of noble birth. I don't think there's any problem with calling someone a damsel.

lmao wavesurf, you know if this poll had asked whether any of the revival DPs could reasonably be considered damsels you'd be the first in line with a dissertation on why each one fits the bill - in fact, that's literally what you just did even though no one was even asking about them. you're not mad that people are labeling any of the DPs as damsels, you're just salty because they didn't use it on the moderns.

many of them need to be rescued too - i've gone on about how i love patf because tiana needs naveen as much as he needs her. it's ridiculous to expect a character to always be in a position to save themselves without any help, and unfair to shame those who can't. the only reason this spun off into a debate is because people stupidly think damsel-hood is a knock against their faves.

None of the Disney Princesses are damsels. I guess Jasmine, Ariel, and Merida come close, but even then, it's debatable for all three of them. I think the term "damsel-in-distress", much like the term"Mary-Sue", is, in 2017, a term that's been overused to the point of meaninglessness.

@Unholynoise: Laugh at me if you want to. Then take up your problem with "damsel hood" and its "definition" with the feminists in the Disney fandom, and on social media. Stop being so ticked off about my opinion on it! LOL. Since that negative connotation is not something that I invented at all. "The feminists" invented it!

And I totally DO think it is fair to show how the "so-often-praised-moderns" really don't pass the " I-don't-need-anybody-at-all, and-can-save-myself-all-of-the-time" test.

Besides, in this poll, you again voted to agree with the damsels "stigma." I don't agree with it, and you know it. And I will always turn things around-- and apply it to the princesses who always "get a free pass" and "the constant heroine worship" by pointing out their reliance on others-- which, ironically, just proves how stupid, narrow-minded, and ( as hatelarxene said), meaningless the "damsel slander" used against the Classicals IS. Damsels in distress is an overrated term. It just is overrated.

I also would quit waving around the word "Mary Sue" because-- again--- that's meaningless ( to quote hatelarxene) and also overrated by being applied so often.

personally wavesurf, idgaf whether you like or hate damsels - though there's nothing wrong with the concept - my problem is with you once again trying police discussions in this group because they don't fit your arbitrary definition of "productive speech" (a.k.a., doesn't rip on the moderns enough. or fawn over one of your waifus like mulan or ariel.) also your obvious hypocrisy over the whole thing: "i hate that we call people damsels, it's such a pointless label, so let me apply it to every single revival DP!!" yeah, okay.

speaking of meaningless terms btw, you pretty much sucked all meaning out of the term "feminist" by acting like evil feminists™ are pulling the strings behind all the fandom shit you don't like. every time you froth at the mouth about feminism - something else no one in this thread is even talking about, what a surprise - you sound ridiculous and paranoid.

@Unholynoise: Actually, you 're the one sounding "off." Most people who have posted in this thread have "agreed" that the "damsel label" is "negative" and "fandom-based" and tied to the "feminists" that you are now trying to tell me that I'm paranoid over.

Big surprise that you and i NEVER GET ALONG.

You never cease to call me a hypocrite, while you continue to go around criticizing all sorts of things that don't line up with "your point of view."

I'm sorry. You sound ridiculous and hypocritical. You always have. You can't seem to do anything but "double-down" on comments and viewpoints you don't like. That's why I dislike debates that feature you in them. You always accuse the other side of looking silly.

But you're the one that looks silly. Everyone in this club already knows that the damsel in distress term is a slang term used among feminists who hate Disney Princess, and who only want their "favorites" to be given praise. And their favorites that everyone should praise? The Moderns, because the old princesses are out-of-date and don't correspond to anybody's sensibilities anymore.

Yeah. Whatever. You can continue to be a hypocrite, Unholynoise. Telling me about how "I should tolerate labels" doesn't do you any good. I don't need your input. And since you have nothing else constructive to say...except for your usual insults, I'm going to stop listening to you as of now.

They fit the basic definition: aka a young, pretty woman who's in danger (kidnapped, about to be killed, etc) by the bad guy / bad circumstances (like an accident? however the latter one is rare to use the term damsel applied) and is unable to save herself.

So, they do fit.

Are they bad characters? No, not at all. It's a cliche, yes, and maybe some people may take issue with it, but I see it as long as we also have female characters who can save themselves alongside the damsels, there's not an issue with it. Besides, some people can care for themselves, others will always need help. Do we have to shame victims now for things that were beyond their control, like being kidnapped or being in an accident? (I can totally see some asshole agreeing to this, though, because empathy is alien to them).

I just say we should get rid of the negative connotations, or at least make nerd circles less toxic and competitive, because when it comes to female characters. it's ALWAYS a competition and vitriol sent towards them. This character sucks since she's a dumb damsel, this character sucks cause she's ugly, blah blah blah...God knows the male characters are never hurled into such petty fights.

And it's funny, when a female character needs help, we cal her a dumb damsel. When she can take care of herself, we call her a Mary Sue. It's like we don't give female characters a break.