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So this is an 記事 I could have sworn I typed ages 前 but apparently did not. I found that out when I wanted to link people to it on coolsinger198's アンケート lol. Coolsinger198 also made an 記事 on this topic so if anyone is interested in hearing the opposing viewpoint I recommend the article; link
She explains her opinions without insulting any character and that's always cool.
So I'll start によって saying that I don't think it is 100% Gold's fault that Regina went to the dark side. I think there are other people who got her there and I do think that (naturally) it was her fault too. Not completely but I think he had a huge hand in it and was a major factor.
I say this because I really don't think she would have made the choice if he didn't 1. put it in her head and 2. didn't make it seem like it was the only way. In her 記事 coolsinger198 mentions that Regina was already fantasizing about killing Snow. I totally agree that this is a very solid point. I kind of just interpreted that a bit differently. Over on that 記事 I bought up one of my お気に入り Harry Potter quotes, "We've all got both light and dark inside us. What matters is the part we choose to act on. That's who we really are." I find that Regina definitely had both inside of her and eventually she did choose to act on the dark. But up until then it was just fantasizing.I'd be lying if I 発言しました I never though about murdering someone and how I'd do it, because let's be honest people can be awful. For me it was a way to blow off some steam without actually hurting anyone. While I don't think that thinking about killing Snow was a stress reliever (so to speak) I also don't think she would have acted on her fantasies if she wasn't 与えられた a bit of coaxing. Because even when she was having those thoughts she was still pretty resistant of the darkness and seemed to fear them and view them as intrusive thoughts. If I remember right there was a scene where she is talking to her father, practically crying, and saying that her mother was making her crazy.
Which is another point; while yes Regina blames ゴールド for her darkness a lot, she also seems to put it on her mother a real lot. There was that scene in her ボールト, 金庫, ヴォールト where she tells Cora that she was angry that she made her into a mini-Cora. I feel like she holds Cora just as responsible, if not もっと見る so than Gold. Likewise she had it out for 鯨, クジラ and Jeff too. They got some pretty harsh deals from her curse.
While I can definitely see why Regina pinning her darkness on Rumple would cause people some discontent, because it does kind of seem like she's trying to stray from taking responsibility for her actions. However I don't think this is the case. Yeah she blames Rumps a lot (because that's probably much easier for her to deal with than seeing herself as a monster) but I do think she blames herself and she does
see herself as a monster. In fact I think she is extremely hard on herself and probably blames herself もっと見る than anyone. I actually wrote a rather lengthy 記事 on this topic alone; link
I cite the season 5 finale very heavily for this. It is in the finale where she has that scene with Emma the one where she says things like, "As long as she's inside me, her baggage, her karma, call it what あなた want, will always be there." The use of karma implies that she realizes that there is a very personal responsibility present. Because in a spiritual sense karma knows who to get back. In this scene she displays a lot of distress in light of living with things she did.
TL;DR: Regina absolutely (and in my opinion rightfully) blames ゴールド for who she became. But she also blames herself. I feel like blaming ゴールド is a sort of ego-defense mechanism at this point.
With all of this 発言しました I've (hopefully) successfully explained why I don't think Regina is just trying to shift the blame. But I haven't yet 発言しました why I agreed with her when she 発言しました "You made me a monster! But I won't let あなた do the same to Emma."
My main reason for agreeing with her is because he very specifically sought her out to get her to make that curse so he could find Neal. The Seer specifically told him of a girl who'd cast a curse for him and he did everything in his power to make it so. It was practically prophesied that she would go to the dark side if he pushed her there. He was told he could get back to his son if he used a girl to cast a curse. He found a girl who was grieving and already struggling to cope, a girl who (by her mother's hand) was predisposed for evil and sacrifice her goodness to make his ends meet. One of the things he did was then bring 鯨, クジラ and Jeff into the picture. They all came up with a very elaborate scheme to bring her hopes--of getting her 愛 back--up only to knowingly break them down so Jeff could get money, 鯨, クジラ could get a heart, and ゴールド can get his curse. Everyone wins but Regina. At this point ゴールド had went out of his way to push Regina over the edge.
And what makes this the most twisted is just how deep and skillful that planning was. And the fact that it was a meticulous manipulation from not just one person but 3 working together with the aim of corrupting an innocent soul.
This kind of manipulation is very hard to break free from, since she didn't even realize what had transpired until much later. And I still don't know if she realizes exactly what they had done. I feel as though Regina only as a vague amount of knowledge about that 日 and that she cursed 鯨, クジラ and Jeff because she knew something suspicious went down that day. I mean how would she know exactly what happened that day?
In short Regina had three people deliberately mess with her head that day. And ゴールド was the main cog in that machine. He was the mastermind.
While this is the main reason I feel like Regina is justified in blaming Gold, I also like to bring up that scene in Quite A Common Fairy. Regina did tried to end the lessons with him but he brushed it off with that "you are the feast, I'll see あなた tomorrow and bring that simmering rage it's all あなた got" speech. He spoke to her as if her anger was all she had and eventually she had to have started to believe it for that's why she didn't take the chance Tink gave her. Later she admits it; "I was afraid it's [her anger] all I have, what would I be without it?" To which Tink 返信 "happy." And she says "weak." This is something I feel comes from both ゴールド and Cora. Her mother kept preaching that 愛 was weakness and 'proved' it to her によって killing Dan. And ゴールド built her to think that anger was strength. Due in part to her fear of being weak ゴールド was able to slink his way in and get it in her head that it was her anger that made her strong. In this instance it was her naive-ness that got her where she was. Even so she really seemed to have recognized that she was going down a dark path and tried to resist it.
あなた see the scene above is not the first time ゴールド 発言しました something like 'your rage is all あなた got'. And that wasn't the first scene where she was actively trying to resist it. This happens in 'We Are Both'. This is when Regina finds Cora's spellbook. I've always seen this as a thing that happened out of curiosity または childish hope. This is when she meets Rumple for the first time and in this scene he expresses a little bit of shock and states that he is surprised that she's so kind and compassionate. It is here that he also reveals that he's known her for a long time. That on it's own is a red flag and reflects back to the Seer paragraph. Sometime later in this episode ゴールド had pressured her into using magic for the first time. Again she expresses fear and concern. When Rumple asked her why she didn't like magic she said, "I loved it." And she went on to explain that that's why she never wanted to touch it again, because she was afraid of how much she loved it and didn't want to end up like her mother.
In my opinion, that very well could have been the end of it. Rumple could have nodded his head and walked away but instead he would come back with inciting offers that seemed like they could benefit her and eventually she caved. And honestly him getting her hooked on magic to me is comparable to one of the 'cool kids' getting one of their peers hooked on cigarettes. "Hey want some drugs kiddies, and some sexuals?" And even though Regina kept saying no, he would come back and explain why doing drugs...er, I mean magic, was cool.
Yes Rumple did say that it was her choice, but then he would come back and tantalize her with false hope. Yes he 発言しました she had a choice and she explicitly, outright 発言しました no and I don't want to do this anymore on many occasions but he would still come back. Again I refer to the Quite a Common Fairy scene. She very clearly 発言しました "I don't want to continue our lessons anymore." Here is some exact dialogue; Regina: I'm not sure about these lessons anymore. I don't wanna have a future that looks like—
Rumplestiltskin: Like what?
Regina: Like you.
Rumplestiltskin: Feeling a little pesky, could it all be, your Majesty?
Regina: Why shouldn’t I? I’m the queen, but practically a prisoner. With a husband whose ハート, 心 is still with his dead wife and his insipid daughter. It’s intolerable. Nothing to do and nowhere to go. (sighs) I need freedom. I need options.
Rumplestiltskin: Ah, can’t be done. あなた see, this is how it is. あなた think you’re the ダイナー, 食堂 at the feast, tasting the offerings. A little love. A little darkness. What あなた don’t realize is, あなた are the feast. And the darkness has tasted you.
Regina: You're vile. Leave my home.
Rumplestiltskin: The darkness likes how あなた taste, dearie. It doesn’t mind the bitter. And now that it started the meal it’s gonna finish it. あなた can no もっと見る fly from your fate that can that (he gestures towards a roasted 白鳥, スワン he noticed earlier standing on the table) swan. See あなた tomorrow. Don’t be late. Oh, and bring that simmering rage. It’s all あなた have.
There are some key points in this conversation. Regina's very first line for one--this is where she expresses ambivalence towards the direction she is headed. Despite him giving her a choice he stands there and 質問 her. The 秒 key point is when she says "I need freedom, I need options." Rumple deliberately plays on this and tells her she has no other option ("ah, can't be done") and proceeds to tell her how it really is. Which leads to key point 3; after that she says very firmly, "leave my home." He does not, not without leaving her with some final words. These final words make up key point 4; he told her she had a choice, but then says, "see あなた tomorrow. Don’t be late." He says this in a way that has that authoritative, 'that's final, end of discussion' way. And follows that up with a baiting and manipulative 'rage is all あなた have.' He made it sound like she had no choice despite saying that the choice was hers.
Did she have to go? No. But fear is powerful, so is Rumple. At this point she may または may not have been afraid to resist him, save for a few firm leave me alone's.
So lets do a little time jump. After this scene is the part where Gold, Jeff, and 鯨, クジラ have their get together. It should be noted that she is still resistant. All she wants at this point is to bring Dan back from the dead and her sole aim is to do so--at this point she doesn't want revenge because she still has hope. Rumple however looks at her an tells her that she's wasting his time if her only goal is to bring Dan back. It is at this point that Jeff pops in. Eventually she strikes up a conversation with him a conversation where she briefly forgets that she is the クイーン lol (to me this shows that she's weary of power still). It is here where the seed is planted; Jeff tells her of a man who can bring Daniel back. In this last ditch effort to avoid resorting to magic acquires he and 鯨, クジラ a ハート, 心 and is lied to about the outcome. This is what pushes her to snap. With that big manipulation she ロスト all hope and realizes that magic was the 'only way'. And the only way to get Rumple to teach her magic was to do what he requested of her at the beginning of the episode--to kill a unicorn. And in the beginning of that episode she didn't want to kill the unicorn to continue her lessons yet Rumps basically called her a waste of time and refused to keep teaching her until she did so. Again she had a choice but he very much pushed her to a certain one.
With that I will bring up another chunk of exact dialog. I think this one has even もっと見る astounding proof than that last one that he made her into a monster; Rumplestiltskin: Now, now. Patience, please. Our transaction is, uh, nearly complete.
Doctor: And are あなた satisfied with the results?
Rumplestiltskin: She did seem rather... heartbroken.
Doctor: She is. She bought my failure.
Jefferson: あなた should've seen her tears.
Rumplestiltskin: I've seen the aftermath. Impressive.
Doctor: Now... my property.
Jefferson: Yeah, here it is.
Doctor: You'll excuse me if I check. It's been a pleasure doing business with you.
Rumplestiltskin: Oh, the pleasure was mine. Thanks to your efforts, I've made my monster. Now I do hope, you'll be able to make yours.
For one thing I think it's very disturbing that Jeff is mocking her tears. And that Rumple is calling it impressive. That alone rubbed me all the wrong way. However I'm just going to point out the big and obvious thing; Rumple's last chunk of dialogue was "I've made my monster."
Rumple himself just confessed that he made her into a monster! So Regina is not
the only one who thinks so. Rumple himself prided himself on shaping her into who she is.
It is extremely difficult for me to not see Rumple as the one who made Regina into a monster when he admitted (quite pridefully) that he did!
The worst part is he continues to do this kind of manipulation. In the season finale he expresses disappointment at her redemption. "For better または for worse it's who あなた are now, guilt riddled and weak." He tried playing on her insecurity/wish not to be seen as weak and told her that she was weak for becoming one of the good guys. ゴールド really seems to like the idea of her being on the bad side. This is also something I addressed in a different article; link
I'm going to 移動する away from talking about Regina for a 秒 to bring up how ゴールド also tried to make a monster of Snow, Hook and Emma. He uses the same tactics on all of them. If I have my facts right he was the one who convinced Snow to kill Cora. ゴールド managed to get pure, sweet, and innocent Snow of all people to murder someone. If he could manipulate someone who is supposed to be a beacon of all things wholesome and pure to murder, then manipulating someone predisposed for darkness is a cake walk. He bought out the worst in Hook when he convinced the pirate that getting his hand back would have side affects. Though Hook had もっと見る of a choice, ゴールド had put an idea into his head and made a sort of placebo affect. Finally, ゴールド was very fond of Dark Swan. He needed Dark 白鳥, スワン to make his ends meet and did everything he could to make sure that she succumbed to her darkness.
What am I getting at here? I'm getting at the fact that Regina was not his only target, she was simply his first and most successful. ゴールド has manipulated so many people and has created quite a few monsters at various levels of evil. In other words he's good at what he does, which is what makes him so dangerous and such a good villain.
Continuing the discussion about...well, not Regina. Coolsinger bought up how Zelena was treated much もっと見る harshly によって the fandom This is a point where I agree. I do believe that the fandom was much harsher with Zelena. And I think that this is because Zelena's case was very different than Regina's. It can be argued that it's Regina's fault that Zelena turned evil. Personally I strongly disagree that Regina made her evil--or at least deliberately
--because Regina didn't even know she existed. Regina's existence made Zelena evil but Regina herself did not. Regina had no power to control Zelena's jealously, at least not at first. When she did get that power I feel like she did quite the opposite of making her evil. As I see it; she very well could have done things to hike Zelena's jealousy up. But even in season 3, she would say things like "it's not all that it's cracked up to be." She explained that yes she had a lot, but that lot that she had was gained through so much pain and wasn't worth it. And in the end Regina ended up making Zelena a good guy. Regina didn't turn Zelena into a monster, she turned her back. Regina also didn't manipulate Zelena in the way ゴールド manipulated her. However I'm not saying Zelena wasn't made into a monster because she was, it just wasn't her sister's hand that corrupted her. I think it was Cora who made her into a monster, によって abandoning her. And then her adoptive father によって 芝居 as if she was some sort of demon.
To be honest I feel most of the villains in this 表示する were created through manipulation. That 発言しました I feel like I've kind of been throwing Rumple under the bus here. However I'm going to stop that now because I feel like he was also a victim of manipulation himself. Manipulation at his father's hand due in part to abuse/neglect. And definitely manipulation によって the 前 dark one who 発言しました that he know how to spot a desperate soul. Which he did, he saw a desperate soul (Rumple) an he played on his cowardice and desperation to make Rumple the new dark one. It's basically like this chain, this evil and dark chain--one monster goes out and creates another.
Back to Regina and taking a totally different approach I feel like it can be argued that Regina's message was misinterpreted. It's much easier to say "Gold made me a monster" than "Gold, my mother, Whale, and Jefferson helped me decide to become a monster."
I also feel as though this statement can be taken as Regina just throwing shade. What a better way of telling someone あなた aren't interested in going back to the dark side then blaming them for putting あなた there in the first place? What a better way of making someone who missed redemption feel like shit than to throw your own redemption in their face and point out that they fixed what あなた broke?
So yeah I do agree with Regina that ゴールド did make her a monster because she tried very hard not to become the Evil Queen, but because of his mind games she chose to do so. He made her think that, that was what she wanted. ゴールド has shown that he has this way of making people think that what he wants is what they want too. And he does it so skillfully.
With all of this in mind I'd like to say that no hate was intended on Rumple. Though he isn't my お気に入り at the moment, he's been through some shit too. And he's a marvelous villain.
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