ワンス・アポン・ア・タイム Article: Why SwanFire Doesn't Make Sense

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posted by TDDD

This is my take on the SwanFire debate. This is just how I saw what the 表示する was portraying and then got really frustrated with Emma's personality glitch when it came to Neal.

First, Emma was absolutely scarred によって what happened. It's why she lied to Henry about his father - she couldn't stand the thought of him finding out what his father had done to her. She made up a story about how his father was a hero who died saving lives.

All her life Emma was completely unloved. As far as she knew at the time she was abandoned as a baby on the side of the road - "[her] parents didn't even care enough to bring [her] to a hospital". She had a family until she was three, but then her adopted parents had a child of their own and "sent [her] back". After that was shunted from foster ホーム to foster ホーム until she aged out of the system at 16. She was sixteen years old and alone in a big city with no qualifications to speak of, no home, no フレンズまたは family. She was forced to steal if she wanted to live.

Enter Neal, they were together for a 年または two and he looked after her. For the first time in her life she had someone to 愛 and to 愛 her. They were going to go to Tallahassee and start a new life together. Then, as far as she knows, he sets the police on her so that he can keep the twenty grand from the stolen watches. She's seventeen/ eighteen years old, pregnant, and in prison. I highly doubt she had an easy time of it there. For the 次 ten years she is completely alone. As far as we know she had no relationships または connections in that time and if she had フレンズ they weren't good enough to keep in contact with after she moved to Storybrooke. The only reason I can see for this is that she simply hasn't been able to trust anyone enough after what Neal did to her. The one time in her life she trusted anyone enough to let him in and he betrayed her, set her up to go to jail for his crime. Even when she gets to Storybrooke she was far もっと見る comfortable sleeping in her car than accepting Snow's offer of a room in her apartment.

Now, I realise Neal did all this for Emma's own good but she suffered terribly because of it, emotionally and psychologically. I also can't get over the fact that Neal did all this because Pinocchio told him to. The fairy-tale character known for dishonesty, trickery, selfishness etc. He betrayed the woman who trusted him もっと見る than she had trusted anyone else in her life simply because someone told him to. Neal may have done what he thought was best but that doesn't negate the fact that Emma was deeply hurt.

It doesn't make sense to me that she would forgive him. That she would just let him back into her life after he broke her. With how untrusting and hardened she became after he betrayed her. Compare the Emma we saw in the very first episode before she meets Henry to the Emma we saw in the flashbacks in Tallahassee. There's a massive difference and all that stems from Neal and how after him she was unable to trust anyone else. I definitely don't see them working, または lasting in another romantic relationship because all the while there'd be a nagging 質問 in the back of Emma's mind: "Is he going to leave again?" She wouldn't be able to trust him after what he did, she'll always wonder if some ランダム guy says to him that he's getting in the way of her destiny if he'll just up and abandon her again and she won't know why.

This is partly why I like the Hook and Emma interactions so much. Hook would never have left Milah. He loved her too much to hurt her like that - especially on the word of someone like Pinocchio. It's obvious in everything he does that the people he loves are absolutely treasured によって him. With how perceptive Emma is she would have seen this, she could have trusted this. When she handcuffed Hook at the 上, ページのトップへ of the beanstalk she 発言しました "I can't take the chance that I'm wrong about you". This all comes back to Neal and her inability to trust people. Hook was also genuinely hurt that she abandoned him, he wouldn't have taken it so badly otherwise. He didn't take it badly that she didn't believe him about the blacksmith ruse または when she was obviously going to leave him to the ogres tied to a tree. This was because she was right, on 上, ページのトップへ of the beanstalk she wasn't. Emma trusts Hook far もっと見る quickly than she's trusted anyone else on the show. She opens up to him about her personal life and the event in her life that hurt her もっと見る deeply than anything else. She hasn't even talked to Mary Margaret about that, but her and Hook are sort of kindred spirits in that they were both irreparably damaged によって the loss of someone they loved. ロスト in different ways but they were still hurt. She left him on the beanstalk because she felt that she could trust him and she was afraid of that.

LowriLorenza89, delenabest17 and 4 others like this

minervadawn Here's how I see it. Neal didn't leave Emma just because August said so he left because he learned that she was connected to magic and he was scared. It was a cowardly thing to do but hey it runs in the family. (jk... sorry Rumple fans. I couldn't resist.) But really, think of it from Neal's point of view. Magic has taken away everything he ever cared about. First his father, then after he thought he'd left it be hide it found him again and took away the happy life that he could have lived with the Darlings. I can only assume that the next 300 years were not happy ones but it is obvious that they left him scared. Like Emma he has issues trusting people. Unlike Hook who can at least be sure that Milah loved him. Neal has no such assurance. He believes his mother left him and his father betrayed him. Anyone else that he's come close to caring about have either hurt him (Hook) are been hurt (the Darlings, childhood friends). I believe that he came closer to loving someone with Emma then he had in a long long time, but their budding romance was not enough to get him involved in something that he had spent his whole life escaping. However when he learned about Henry he broke the chain of cowardice that had plagued his family for generations and exposed himself to what he feared more then anything in the world so that he could be with his son. He still has a lot of work to do to prove himself worthy of Emma again, but that journey to gain back each others trust is what interests me about their relationship. Hook could also one day be worthy of emma but he has yet to show any inclination for doing such a thing. I guess the question is who can get to that point first. Sorry if this comes across as a ton of garbled, typo-ridden nonsense. It's late and my brain's not functioning like it should be. I'll come back later and make sense of it when I am in better shape to do so.

TDDD I see where you're coming from, I should probably look at Neal a little more but frankly I'm going to look at it from Emma's point of view because Emma was the victim. Neal made a choice and Emma was the one who suffered. I just think it was really out of character for Emma to trust Neal again, let alone say "I love you." when he was the one who broke her, maybe irreparably, in the first place.

FlightofFantasy Yeah, I don't find Emma and Neal's rekindled romance to be at all convincing, and when she told him she loved him... nonsense. I'm sorry, I just don't buy the whole thing. That being said, I also don't buy Emma and Hook. Are they attracted to one another? I don't doubt it. They're attractive people. Have they both been hurt by love? Yes, but who hasn't? I definitely see them having some short term fling, one night stand, whatever, but long term? No. At this point, I really don't care with whom Emma ends up. I loved her with Graham, then he got killed. I really liked her with August, then he got turned into a fuckin' kid. Now I find none of her potential ships interesting. To be honest, SwanQueen is the most interesting to me (though I'm not really an SQ shipper), but I know that's not happening. I'm betting that she and Neal will end up together, but that just doesn't fly with me. I kinda wish she would not have a love interest at all, but this is a TV show so that's not going to happen. Whatever.

Evilregal14 This is stupid, no offense. They are the best couple on the show. Glad someone made a Rumbelle article and Stockholm syndrome. Why doesn't anyone else see that she has Stockholm syndrome?

TDDD ^None taken, I was just giving an opinion on why I don't think they'd work based on Emma's characterization. Why do you think they're the best couple and why's it stupid? Yeah, that was a great article. Rumbelle is fascinating but not at all healthy.

minervadawn I know its clique but it really is true that you never get over your first love. Even if you find someone else that you love more. The experience of discovering love for the first time will never happen again and despite everything you will always long for it. When the chance comes along to try again it's very hard to resist even if it may not be the smartest choice. At least that is what I personally have experienced and that is what I see happening with Emma. That is probably why I'm so drawn to the ship.

TDDD ^*Laughs* I'm actually the opposite. Generally I find it unrealistic for a first love the be The One. First love is always sweet but rarely forever. The whole "discovering love" thing is what's so sad about Emma and Neal's relationship as it wasn't just Emma discovering romantic love, it was the first time in her life anybody had ever loved her. And for 10 years she thought that was a lie so for ten years she closed off her heart completely to others (Graham excepting - I keep forgetting about him). So when Neal so abruptly came back into her life all those memories and feelings came back and she got really confused without a chance to actually sort through them before Neal was lost through the portal. This is where I think the "I love you" came from, old memories and the feelings that came with them after denying herself love for so long.

Evilregal14 Thanks, I wasn't being rude :) I think they're the best because they have quite a lot in common and they truly love each other. They admitted it in episode 21.

minervadawn ^^ I also believe it's unrealistic for your first to be The One. It's possible but rare. However your first will always be special and unique no matter what.

TDDD ^^ What exactly do they have in common? I may have missed something really obvious here, but I don't remember them having too much in common except Henry and how they were abandoned by their parents. As I've said before, I didn't see their declaration of love to be worth all that much in the long run. Although people are always going to see different interpretations to things like that where it's very subject. Granted, Hook and Emma aren't in love either and I don't think they will be for a while but they have a strong and very real potential.

Evilregal14 They don't have potential. Like I said in my article (read if you want the reasons). They were both thieves, abandoned by their parents, they gave Henry, they both wanted a fresh start...there's a video called 101 reasons to ship SwanFire and there you will find reasons to prove they do make sense.

TDDD ^ This has all come down to perspective. I don't see a future between Emma and Neal due to trust issues from their last relationship. Weighed against their issues I don't think the list of things you mentioned that they have in common make for a solid relationship. Captain Swan has just as many of those similarities to SwanFire: Neal and Emma were thieves. So is Hook. Abandoned by their parents? So was Hook. They wanted a fresh start? This was basically Hook's story-line for the last episode. Having a kid doesn't exactly mean their father is the love of your life. Yes, a video about 101 reasons to ship SwanFire exists, but so does one for Rumbelle and there are ones about Captain Swan. Besides, in videos like that the reasons are generally shallow and silly, "Because the cop shipped it" is a prime example. As for Captain Swan, I don't know anyone who'd say there was any love there now, but I think there very easily could be. Chemistry is very subjective, I see it with Captain Swan, others see it with Gremma, Swan Queen and SwanFire. Just because I don't see it doesn't mean I'm going to deny its existence for other people. She left him on the beanstalk because she was afraid of trusting him. She knew that she could and would if he came with her but with Henry at stake she couldn't take any chances. After this they were on different sides, of course they're going to fight, of course Emma is going to defend her ally Gold over someone who, at that moment, was working entirely for himself. Yes, she punches him in 2x09 but he's on the Cora's side at this time and he's also standing between her and Henry. This whole debate has boiled down to opinions and interpretations, but this is my take on it all.

Evilregal14 Well Emma seems to love Neal and Neal loves her, so you can't really change her mind about that. Personally I don't think she even likes Hook. They fought loads in FL.

delenasalvatore @TDDD, I don't visit this spot often, but after reading the article you posted on Hook/Emma I decided to check this out too, and I'm glad I did. I agree with everything you said. Do Emma and Neal still love each other? Yes. Will they end up together and is he her 'true love'? I don't think so, for all the reasons you mentioned here. I do not accept, and no matter how sorry Neal is and however he or anyone tries to justify his actions, I will never accept, that Emma's 'one true love' could bail on her the way he did. True love should always choose you and put you first. How can you argue that by shopping Emma to the police and putting her in jail was the right thing for her when it destroyed her emotionally and had a serious impact on her as an adult? I mean, if doing those things helped her, then maybe it wouldn't have been so bad. But you can't justify that Neal's actions were done out of love when it had such a devastating effect on Emma's life. Loving someone should be about doing what's best for them, and Neal definitely didn't do that. He was a coward and took the easy way out. If he was concerned about her 'destiny', then couldn't he have handed himself over to the police instead of letting her get done for something he did? Couldn't he have broken up with her and told her that he wants a better life for her than the one he's entangled in right now? Couldn't he have handled the situation completely differently than how he did? Of course he could. How was Emma's going to jail at all conducive to her realising her destiny? I didn't see the writers giving SwanThief/Fire proper development. The way they met was terribly contrived. The only reasons why they seemed to fall in love was that they were both thieves and had been abandoned by their (fairytale character) parents. The story in 'Tallahassee' jumps from them meeting in Neal's car to running around making out and stealing things. Why did they fall in love? We never saw it happen. In one scene they had just met, the next they were a couple. If SwanThief are meant to be epic love, then I don't think the writers would have made them happen so easily. If you look at all the major couples on the show, like Snowing and Rumbelle, each of their relationships were plagued by obstacles on every side, some of which looked impossible to overcome. And yet, people seem to assume that ST will be endgame. If they're assuming, then it means they're wrong. Epic loves are never easy. If they were, then the fans wouldn't care so much and the couple in question don't deserve to be called 'epic'. I've seen it happen before on other shows. In S1-2 of TVD, people said 'Delena won't happen. Elena will always love Stefan. He is her first love.' Wrong! I think Emma needs closure with the whole Neal thing. But the thing is, EVERY time she lets her guard down with him and loves him, she loses him. Honestly, if Neal hadn't been about to get sucked into the portal, then I doubt that she would have ever said 'I love you'. She thought he was going to die and she would never see him again, and it was a combination of the circumstance she was in, plus the fact that he was a very important person in her life. Just for the record though, I have never understood why being someone's 'first love' should be given precedence in this kind of debate. It's a fact, and doesn't really explain why 2 people should end up together.

TDDD ^ Glad to see more Captain Swan shippers on this spot, even if you're only visiting! I agree with you completely, about everything. I don't like Neal as a character and I think that does come across quite strongly in my articles, which I regret. I try to look at things as objectively as I can, especially when I'm writing about it. I don't like this pairing because I don't think Neal's actions coupled with Emma's personality would make for a lasting relationship. Neal may have thought he was doing the right thing and acting for Emma's benefit but intent doesn't really rule out consequence. It can add points in a person's favor but people have to be held accountable when they damage a person and Neal hasn't been. I can understand why people are drawn to a first love pairing, even if I, personally, find them saccharine and boring. Others find them sweet. It's important in a debate because with any previous love comes a person's feelings. I agree with you that Emma wouldn't have told Neal she loved him if he wasn't about to die though, it seemed very much a caught-up-in-the-moment kind of thing.

minervadawn ^^ I don't think swanfire is meant to be "epic" love. I see it more as your everyday sweet/complicated kind of love that the average person experiences. I find it refreshing alongside all the other epic fairytale couples on the show. A bit of ordinary (almost) lost in a world of extraordinary.

TDDD ^ Maybe I was wrong, but I read her meaning of Epic Love to just being another way of saying True Love, not as a way of saying love filled with fireworks and Hollywood hyperbole. Even if you don't like it, (and lots of people don't) Snowing all through season 2 was your sweet/complicated love but at the same time was an "epic" love. But maybe I just misunderstood her meaning.

minervadawn ^ Snowing was sweet and complicated but it was definitely an epic fairytale romance while Swanfire is sweet and complicated in an ordinary everyday way. I don't believe Swanfire is "true love" ( I see true love as being a very rare thing that doesn't happen to everyone) but I do think they are in love. Will it work out? Who knows, but I think it has a chance. Snowing was predestined they will "always find each other" the unsurety of Swanfire is what makes it so interesting and (for me) relatable and realistic.

delenasalvatore Well, I don't believe that Swanfire is true love due to the way Neal treated Emma. I don't really see them as sweet - maybe they were when they first met, but not now. I think Swanfire have been romanticized way too much when really, they are quite tragic. And you know, people make excuses for what Neal did, and that he 'always loved her', but the guy had eleven years to tell her that he loved her, curse or no curse, destiny or no destiny, and he didn't. He's not a bad guy - weak-minded, sure, but not a bad guy - and he deserves to be happy. Just not with Emma.